Ofgem’s 2022-23 Strategic Innovation Fund Challenge areas (1 of 2)

– Ofgem’s: 2022

[Music flourish]

Matt: 00:03

This is episode four of Bright Spark, a podcast from Innovate UK in partnership with Ofgem and all about the opportunities that are available to energy networks and their partners under the Strategic Innovation Fund or SIF. I’m Matt Hastings and this time, we are focusing on two of the SIF’s four current challenge areas. Spoiler alert: we will home in on the other two next time in episode five. Coming up, we visit Imperial College London to discuss preparing for a net-zero power system with globally renowned Professor Tim Green.

Tim: 00:37

ise our electricity system by: 2035

Matt: 00:48

Later, we are with Ed Rees of Citizens Advice who shares thoughts on why it’s vital we support a just energy transition.

Ed: 00:57

We’re not in a very good position currently. There will be 8.2 million consumers in fuel poverty from October and that’s even with £400 of bill reduction introduced by the government.

[Music flourish]

Matt: 01:23

As you know by now, I’m joined in these episodes by one of my Innovate UK colleagues and for this episode, we have the brilliant Manu Ravishankar.

Manu: 01:33

Hi, Matt. How are you?

Matt: 01:34

We’re on good form, thanks. Are you okay?

Manu: 01:36

Yeah, all good, all good. Looking forward to this.

Matt: 01:37

Excellent. Me too! So, Manu, you’ve been responsible for a huge amount of the heavy lifting around the challenges; the first stage in our four-stage Giant Leap Together operating model. In the context of the fund and our challenge areas, can you just introduce yourself a little bit and the work that you’ve been doing?

Manu: 01:57

Yeah, I’m very happy to. My name is Manu Ravishankar. I’m an innovation lead and my background is all about whole systems thinking and how we can use the power of systems thinking to address some of the most pressing challenges between climate change and the energy sector and help companies think beyond their own particular part of the energy system so that we can connect the dots and really move the needle on climate change and the net-zero transition.

Matt: 02:25

That’s really cool stuff. So for those who aren’t familiar with the programme and what we mean by challenges, would you be able just to give a bit of an overview of why we’ve landed on this challenge-led innovation approach and why we have this four each year evolving challenge model?

Manu: 02:43

d to be a net-zero society by: 2050

Matt: 03:49

That, to me, is the benefit of challenge-led innovation which is that focus on that specific critical issue. Look, you are very much in the driving seat for this episode. Tell us what we’ve got in store.

Manu: 04:02

Sure. So we’re taking time in this episode and the next one, episode five, to go in-depth into each of the four current challenge areas and to talk about what we’re keen to focus on, what we’re looking for from successful SIF applicants and also the innovative partners who have come together to meet these challenges.

Matt: 04:23

So to recap, the four challenges are supporting a just energy transition, improving energy system resilience and robustness, accelerating decarbonisation of major demands and preparing for a net-zero power system. These challenges aren’t just something that we’ve made up by ourselves in a little SIF-shaped bubble. We’ve done a huge amount of engagement with the sector. You’ve done a huge amount of engagement with the sector. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what led us up to the point of being able to select these four challenges from the huge amount of different ideas that we had coming in?

Manu: 04:57

Absolutely, Matt. As you said, we did a lot of engagement. As you know, this is quite a busy space and quite a dynamic space. There’s a lot of work that happens every day and there are different programmes and so on. Therefore, for SIF to be additional and really focus on impactful areas, we need to take stock of what work has been done and what some of the gaps are which could really warrant us focusing on. By talking to the different stakeholders, which was around 140 engagements actually that we did, we were able to take stock of all the great work that’s already been done and then try to prioritise it down to some of the areas that are sometimes a natural progression but sometimes there are gaps that have been left behind in some of the older programmes. The second area is the energy system is not purely technical but there are a lot of dimensions of activities happening. There are solutions developers. There are people looking at consumer business models. There are local authorities trying to deliver their climate change plans and so on. We really need to listen to this diversity of voices to understand some of the areas of challenges that different people are facing and some of the great ideas that they might have. By doing these two things and really speaking to a wide range of stakeholders, we were able to generate a lot of ideas and then selected four challenges. We then had another discussion with Ofgem before we finalised those areas.

Matt: 06:18

I think the key point here is around where we target our investment as a fund and make sure that we’re not duplicating areas that the broader innovation ecosystem is covering. When it comes to net zero and when it comes to our energy networks and energy systems, we’ve probably got around £5 billion of investment across UK government, UKRI and Ofgen and we’re being really well-coordinated and joined up between other funders to ensure that we’re targeting that investment in the right areas. Exactly like you say, listening more than talking so that we’re deploying our investment in the right areas is an absolutely key value of the fund and something that, I have to say, I think you’ve done fantastically well.

Manu: 07:02

One of the most exciting aspects of my job is just listening to the diversity of work that’s going on. It’s just fascinating, as you say, just going into listening mode and just taking in all of this great work and all the great experience that’s around us that we can leverage to make ourselves more impactful. So, yeah, I absolutely enjoyed it. Thank you.

[Music flourish]

Matt: 07:22

Now each one of these challenges is absolutely enormous in its own right, so we’re going to take some time to digest each one in detail and we’re going to go through them one by one: two this episode and two the next time.

Manu: 07:37

So what I have been doing is having discussions with some of the leading thinkers across each of the challenges. Later in this episode, we’ll focus on supporting a just energy transition but first, we are looking at preparing for a net-zero power system.

that will be focusing on for: 2023

Tim: 08:17

Hello, my name is Tim Green. I’m Professor of Electrical Power Engineering at Imperial College London. I’ve got quite a wide interest in energy systems in general and how we decarbonise across both electricity, heating and industrial use of energy and transport use of energy. I also have a particular specialisation within that which is the type of power processing known as power electronics; so using very large-scale semiconductors to process electrical power as opposed to or in contrast to rotating electrical machines. That’s really a key technology in the future grid because all of our major new resources, like wind, solar, batteries and so forth, are electronically interfaced.

Manu: 09:03

So, Tim, I’d really like to start from the start. What does it mean for you to be preparing for a net-zero power system?

Tim: 09:09

The main thing is obviously to decarbonise the sources of our energy. It’s the shift that’s already well underway out of coal, which has largely happened, and out of gas and into, for the UK, wind principally. Solar is going to be important but wind and offshore wind, in particular, we see as very cost competitive in Northwest Europe where it’s windy. That’s the big change happening. Nuclear will continue to play a role. At the other end of that system or equation, we’re thinking about what’s changing in the way people use energy. So most of the things that we use electricity for in the home will stay broadly as they are. We’re not really seeing a radical change there but in heating and in transport is where the changes are happening obviously. So it’s charging electric vehicles at our homes, workplaces or at the shopping centre and running heat pumps rather than natural gas boilers. Those are the two ends of the system but what’s changing in the middle matters hugely. We will still use big centralised electricity generation because our wind farms are big and we’re going to need a network to transmit that power from where it arises to where it’s used in the towns and cities. That means that we’re changing that network. Instead of it being big coal-fired power stations in South Wales and the Midlands and so forth, it’s wind farms around the coast; so off the coast of Pembrokeshire will come shortly and off the East Coast of England and Scotland. So we will need new infrastructure to do that with new infrastructure in the towns to make sure that we can feed all of those electric vehicles but also some big changes in the operation of the electricity grid. Our electricity grids grew up around generators which are magnets rotating in coils or what we call synchronous generators. All the features of those generators really dictated the way in which we built our electricity system with the way we make sure that two generators lock in together, run together and both produce 50 Hz. With the way that we deal with a fault when a tree hits a line and there’s a short circuit and fault current flows, how do we manage that and get back to a secure and reliable system again? How do we control the voltage? All of that built up around the traditional generators and now when we decommission those and we run from wind turbines, which have an electronic interface to the grid rather than a spinning electromagnet interface to the grid, then we have to think again about how we keep the system secure, how we make sure it’s stable, how we control the voltage, how we control the frequency and how we manage faults. It’s a lot of work there. That is done partly in planning and it’s done partly in real-time operations from a control centre for the grid and those control centres are going to change because the system is much faster in the way it responds to events out on the network. The decision support tools and data processing that goes on in those control centres will need to change as well.

Manu: 12:08

So is it fair to say that the transition to a net-zero power system is very multi-dimensional? So it’s not just about building more infrastructure. We need to think about security, resilience and how people interact with the energy system. There are a lot of aspects to think about and not just that if we keep building out, we’ll reach that goal.

Tim: 12:28

Oh, absolutely. It’s not just about building kit and installing it. There are a great many disciplines involved there. You were mentioning the data science around processing and much more data from much more intelligent pieces of equipment on the network and getting useful information out of the data. There’s the control system arrangement or the autopilot of the grid, the electrical engineering of how that grid is put together, the civil engineering of building all of that infrastructure but also the market design, the economics of that and the human behavioural aspects if we really are going to put different propositions to customers. It’s about making sure that that is an interesting proposition for the customer that they want to engage with that solves problems they experience and not an interesting proposition for the grids to solve the grids’ problems because that’s not going to fly off the shelf.

Manu: 13:23

So the takeaway then is that this is an area that’s ripe for innovation. Taking a step back, the Strategic Innovation Fund’s objective is to really move the needle for the net-zero transition in terms of the gas and electricity networks and system operation and ultimately, deliver net benefits to consumers and create a lot of exciting innovations, products, services and new companies. Do you think then the time is right for the SIF to focus on preparing for a net-zero power system as a key challenge area?

Tim: 13:54

ise our electricity system by: 2035

Manu: 16:08

I think that’s a really fascinating point that it’s not only technological development but there is a point around transference and knowledge dissemination that allows us to kind of embrace this challenge and work together at a pace that is required which I’ve never thought about in that way. It’s a really fascinating point that, as you said, the Future Energy Scenarios are all contributing towards that shared understanding of what we need to do and where we need to go and it enables us to work towards it in a coordinated manner.

Tim: 16:35

Yeah, because lots of people have to respond to that, don’t they? There are the people like Siemens, Hitachi, Schneider and GE who make the big electrical equipment and the electrical bits of the wind farms. They need to see which way the industry thinks the whole system is going to know what features to build in. The grid operators need to understand what features might be available and what the manufacturers can produce. The developers, the people who build the wind farms with the kit that’s supplied by the vendors, need to think about what, beyond selling energy, is going to give them a value stream and what services they can provide to the system to help it manage the frequency, for instance. That has to be a shared understanding across the different types of actors that are in the system.

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Manu: 17:29

So, now that we’ve covered a little bit about what we’ve done well and some of the enabling architectures we’ve put in place to work together as a community to achieve that transition, perhaps it would be good to get your reflections on what some of the difficult areas are. As you were saying, it gets harder as we get closer to that target and there are different things we need to focus on. Could you tell us a little bit about what the big stumbling blocks are for us to get past in the next 12-15 years for that net-zero transition?

Tim: 17:58

There are lots of them and I’ll forget a few I’m sure [laughter]. First of all, I want to go back to the words ‘power system’ or ‘grid system.’ It works when it all works together. That is a huge challenge. Very occasionally, we have a power cut and it will be a widespread event involving lots of people and when it goes wrong, it’s not a localised event. So we have to keep the whole system running or there are serious consequences. That means every part has to work. We build in redundancy and so it’s not strictly every part. When we make changes, there are difficulties perhaps around unintended consequences. We begin to see emergent behaviours in the system which are maybe running ahead of our analysis of the dynamics of the system and so there’s a lot of clever maths going on trying to analyse what happens when the system perturbs. Do we know that if you have a sudden loss of a single generator or sudden peak load switch-on that the system will wobble a little bit but come back to where it was and be stable? We’re beginning to see emergent behaviours of wind farms doing things that we didn’t quite realise that they would do when they were put in the rest of the system and interacting with everything else. That, I think, is one of the big challenges. How do we model and understand the dynamics of a system which has gone from having 100 or 200 power stations to thousands of wind turbines, millions of solar panels and thousands of batteries? The scale of the system has got much bigger; the curse of dimensionality. Another really fascinating challenge is that we’ve gone from apparatus in the system which is really governed by laws of motion. It’s a spinning mass that accelerates and decelerates according to equations that are well understood. We’ve gone from that to a system whose behaviours are defined by software. Firstly, it can be more complicated. Secondly, they can be much, much faster reactions which is challenging for what happens in the control room. Thirdly, that software is proprietary. It is the intellectual property of the people who have developed that equipment and we have to respect that. They’ve developed it and they need to make a return on it. How do we now build a system model and be able to assure ourselves that the whole thing is going to hold together under all the operating conditions like a very sunny day, a very cold, dark winter day or an event that happens when a nuclear power station unexpectedly shuts down or something? We have to be sure of ourselves around all of that. That is challenging I think because it probably means a shift for us away from a physics-led model to a data-led model. So rather than writing all the equations and then finding the right numbers to plug into, we’re going to find all the measurement data from our system and try to build a model from that.

Manu: 20:53

So do we need new actors and new disciplines to come together to start addressing the problems? Can you let us know about some of those key stakeholder groups that need to work together?

Tim: 21:04

Yeah, certainly. With the increasing digitalisation of the network and the reliance much more on software-defined systems to control it, monitor it and ensure its health, we need software architects to understand how we’re going to plug in different bits of the models contributed by different people. We need a bit of a shift towards open software development rather than single-vendor software systems. That’s a big change. We, potentially, could stream a great deal of data off our power system. It’s maybe not as big and as complicated as the data you’ve got streaming videos across the world but it’s still a sizeable amount of data and data is no use as what you want is the information that’s buried in the data. So it’s the data science of understanding what those signals are trying to tell us about the stability and the dynamics of the system on the one hand or what they’re trying to tell us about the asset health. Is this particular piece of equipment ageing prematurely and needs to be taken out? There’s cyber security, obviously. We’re talking about a critical national infrastructure. There’s also a huge amount of commercial and market data now between many more sources of power but also more active consumer engagement. Digitalisation is there in several aspects.

Manu: 22:25

You have been examining and researching this sector for a few years now and you’re one of the top experts in the world. If you were developing a project for the Strategic Innovation Fund at this time, what would be the area that you’d pick up and really focus on?

Tim: 22:41

I come to this from a particular background. I started work in the area of power electronics and so this is about big semiconductors as a way of processing power rather than electromagnetic means. It’s been a long journey to the point where it feels like we are at the sharp end of this debate now but it feels like we are. For me, it’s about how we do root cause analysis of problems that emerge in the power system. When we see an oscillation develop in the system that takes a long time to damp out, that’s telling us that the next time it happens, it might not damp out and it might oscillate uncontrollably and then we have an event leading to a power cut. For me, how do we combine models built on the physics of the bits of the system for which we can write the equations and models built on data for the bits where we’re uncertain about what the characteristics are? There’s a set of mathematical techniques we need to develop to blend physics and data models and a set of mathematical techniques around how we identify root causes of problems. This is all aimed at putting software tools into a control room. So a system operator who is observing the system and sees an emergent problem can look to this tool and say, ‘I need to diagnose what’s going on now and get on top of it before that leads to a runaway situation that can’t be controlled.’ Those are tools which are really in their very early stages at the moment because we’re only now reaching the point where our systems are beginning to be dominated by the power electronic interfaces rather than the traditional interfaces.

Manu: 24:20

Thank you. It feels like as the system is becoming a lot more complex, we really need those fundamental tools for us to understand how the system behaves in different situations so that we can monitor, predict and manage these systems in real-time and deliver the security that we’re all used to and when we flick a switch, the light comes on. We still need that to happen even though we might be running a completely different power system in about ten years’ time.

Tim: 24:44

Yes, because, as a householder, you shouldn’t be expected to worry about the fact the grid system out there is changing. That’s the business of those in this industry to make sure that as we decarbonise and we make the system smart, consumers get at least as good a service.

[Music flourish]

Manu: 25:06

It was so great to Professor Tim Green as part of the podcast. It’s always such a great experience to get a glimpse inside all the great research that’s going on within Imperial College. It’s hugely impressive. For the second half of this episode, we’ll be looking at the second of our four challenge areas which is supporting a just energy transition. I’ve been speaking with Ed Rees from the Energy Networks and Services Team at Citizens Advice.

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Ed: 25:30

I focus on the energy networks and systems as part of the wider Consumer Advocacy Team at Citizens Advice.

Manu: 25:40

Hi, I’m really excited to talk to you about a just energy transition. It is certainly a concept that I find is being used a lot more when we talk about climate change and energy systems but as someone who is at the heart of these discussions representing people’s needs, what does supporting a just energy transition mean to you?

Ed: 26:00

There are two key parts. One is fairness in providing a reliable quality of service but fairness is also fairness to different consumers with different needs and requirements and different abilities to pay. We’re not in a very good position currently. I have to mention the current energy crisis, given my role at Citizens Advice. National Energy Action is saying there will be 8.2 million consumers in fuel poverty from October and that’s even with the £400 of bill reduction introduced by the government. The system at the moment could do better in terms of fairness and justice. There are a couple of key causes for this current position that we’re in. One of the key drivers is dependence on externally-sourced, high-carbon fossil fuels. This trend and dependence leads to extra cost and will continue to do so in the long term. The longer answer as to why we have this dependence and unjustness or unfairness in the system is that that’s kind of how the system was designed and it’s very susceptible to volatility. There are a couple of key reasons as to why we have that volatility. One is gas to the property which limits the diversity of the energy supply. We always have to have gas to keep people turning on their ovens and heating their homes. Another key challenge is low levels of electric heat. We have the lowest in Europe and the lowest rates on installation, so we’re really behind when it comes to transitioning away from fossil fuels. Another key factor is low levels of housing insulation. We’re particularly poor in the UK at that and also our networks are unprepared for the climate challenge. We’ve seen a couple of storms in the last year, Storm Arwen and Storm Eunice, and both caused massive disruption to the power supply and left millions of people off the grid. There are some very simple solutions to address the preparedness of the energy system we need in the future.

Manu: 28:01

As you say, it is an important area but what you have explained really highlights that where we’re starting from is quite a low baseline, so we have a lot to do. It almost feels like a twin challenge where the energy system itself needs to transition in line with net-zero requirements and we need to embed the just transition within it as it evolves into whatever set of technologies, markets and business models that are going to help us achieve net zero. Moving the conversation on, the Strategic Innovation Fund develops challenges where we feel like innovation and collaborative action can really help us move the needle in some of these areas and, of course, deliver important consumer benefits. In this context and taking into account all of the barriers that you mentioned, do you feel like the timing is right for the SIF to focus on supporting a just energy transition?

Ed: 28:58

I think it is. I think the real challenge is that it’s such a worthy area. That’s also partly a problem because everybody accepts that this is something that should be worked on in the industry and when we’ve asked consumers themselves and we’ve done some polling which shows that a lot of people are actually really supportive of providing additional support to vulnerable customers. We’ve done some research with Public First and with Delta-EE looking at this and seeing this really good level of support from consumers. The trouble is that the legacy approach to addressing the challenge has been very piecemeal. A lot of networks have been funded over a long period of time to innovate in this area. There’s also lots of work by suppliers, local authorities and charities all doing lots of piecemeal activity to try and address the challenge. What I’m really excited about with the SIF is there’s a chance to look at this strategically from the big picture to really look at how we can move the dial significantly on this challenge. I think we’ve fallen into a bit of incrementalism with the approach to tackling this challenge and the SIF provides an opportunity to really go to the heart of the challenge and rather than thinking about what’s going to do well for a few customers but what is actually going to be a system that’s going to work for the whole of the country and deliver over time.

Manu: 30:22

That actually gets me quite excited in a way. Overcoming incrementalism, joining the dots and taking a systems approach is essentially what SIF is all about. I feel it is actually quite a good time for the just energy transition topic to undertake innovations that can help move the needle along using SIF support. There’s the second bit that you said which is probably about the collaboration. There are a lot of stakeholders involved in this that need to come together to make it work for consumers and, again, almost a critical part of SIF’s DNA is how we really align efforts across not only the energy sector but actually looking beyond because these are artificial divides that we make when we talk about the energy sector. Consumers don’t really draw lines across the economy that way. I can see why it’s important to join the efforts across the sector. Maybe just one question. You mentioned a couple of issues in terms of the networks needing to understand who really needs the support and how they can best provide all the services that currently exist and that are going to evolve. What would you think are the big stumbling blocks, particularly in an energy network context, that we need to be aware of and address to make meaningful progress in those two areas?

Ed: 31:36

So there are a couple of areas where we’re going to look at some projects to address some of these challenges and one is the Priority Service Register (PSR) which is the way that the networks sign up consumers who need additional support. The task is split between suppliers and networks and it’s a very piecemeal approach at the moment. If you were to want to sign up to the PSR to say to a network that you need some additional support, you’d need to go onto the network’s website, find the right page and answer a set of questions. Each of the networks has a different page for sign-up with a different set of questions. Over time, the networks have shown that they sign up a relatively small number of customers a week because it’s not that well-known and the process to sign up is quite slow. There are ways in which you can revolutionise how that’s done. You can use things like AI to think about spotting consumers who are vulnerable ahead of time. You can also get consumers to have an easy access point for signing up and to allow signing up of people like friends or family, people who might not necessarily know they need support but you think you can actually help them. There are lots of ways in which data can be used more smartly to better understand the needs of customers.

Manu: 32:58

Again, it’s a really exciting area that feels ripe for innovation around how we leverage data and digitalisation developments for the benefit of consumers and the net-zero transition. I just want to pick up on that point. As you say, there’s the Priority Services Register and other utilities working with customer support data and digitalisation but who do you think are the key stakeholders that need to come together to deliver this effectively? It feels like not just an energy sector or an energy network issue to target. It almost feels broader than that. Is that fair?

Ed: 33:33

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the key challenges that’s going to come forward in this space is also the difference between consumers who can flex their energy usage and consumers that can’t and so the level of support and engagement needs to change. Alongside networks and suppliers, there are also people like behaviour change specialists, consumer experts and researchers. All of these sorts of people need to come together to try and address some of these key challenges.

Manu: 34:03

I think that’s a great call to action to think about the solutions that you’re developing and the projects that you’re involved in and how you can shape proposals coming into SIF. Actually, on that point, I want to close the discussion, Ed, by asking you and putting you on the spot a little bit actually, if you were developing a project idea into SIF in this challenge area, what would it be? Where would you focus?

Ed: 34:26

Well, I’m going to be cheeky. I’ve got two ideas and one I’ve already touched on a little bit. We’ve talked a little bit about the PSR process of having the sign-ups on the different websites. There’s also the option of things like AI to automate the engagement, so consumers don’t need to give their consent to receive those additional services. There are also ways in which you could have a one-stop shop sign-up process across all the networks and maybe not even just energy networks but thinking right across the water sector and telecom sector – all those essential utilities – and avoid a customer having to sign up to each of those different portals to get support. If they can just fill in those details once, that would be brilliant and give consumers control over what data they share, so they feel in control of what happens to them. Privacy is really important to consumers and when they feel like decisions are made on their behalf, sometimes they might feel they might not be in their own interests. They want to always have that control element to rescind permission. If you can give consumers that, I think they’ll trust the process and be keen to get additional support in the system. That’s point one. The second point I think is that energy efficiency is key in this sector. It really is the big leveller between consumers. If you can get energy efficiency into homes, it reduces the chance of bill volatility which means that people are going to feel much more secure about being able to pay their bills. However, the level of energy efficiency installs is very low, partly because it’s not that attractive to consumers and they don’t always understand the level of returns they’ll get or have confidence they’ll get returns. What would make a real difference is if there are what I call bankable energy efficiency installs, a bankable level of return that consumers will get for installing something. The more bankable you can make energy efficiency installs, the more likely consumers are to see them as good investments with low risk which are going to be worth their while. I don’t think consumers are there yet, so I think there’s a huge opportunity to use data and to use guarantees to consumers to really encourage energy efficiency installs.

Manu: 36:37

Thanks, Ed. It’s always great when you ask someone to state one innovation idea and they come up with two. It’s absolutely great. That’s two of our four SIF challenge areas covered: supporting a just energy transition earlier in this episode and preparing for a net-zero power system. Let’s bring Matt Hastings back in for a couple of final thoughts.

Matt: 37:01

Thanks very much, Manu. What a cracking episode. Thank you so much to all of our speakers. A really brilliant, dynamic and insightful piece of work.

Manu: 37:09

There’s so much potential in these two challenge areas alone. In your most positive, upbeat moments (which is 24 hours a day), what positive changes do you believe can be delivered by these two SIF challenges?

Matt: 37:22

g technical environment where: 2035

Manu: 40:34

Absolutely, Matt. I think 100% and I’d like to echo what Tim Green was saying which is that this is the perfect time for SIF to enable all of these innovations across these areas. It feels like we’re in this perfect storm moment when all of these challenges but also some of the tailwinds about innovations, digitalisation and data are at the right time for us to almost unleash SIF onto the sector and see the exciting places it could take us.

Matt: 41:03

I agree.

[Music flourish]

Just to take a little bit of a step back here, let’s not forget that the challenges are just one part of our four-stage Giant Leap Together process where we move from challenges into ideation, into incubation and acceleration but really, without the challenges and being able to define these issues upfront, we’re never going to be able to solve some of these mission-critical challenges at the speed that we need to solve them. I’m really excited to move into ideation, something that the team are already working on now, which is where we start to think and talk to some of the great businesses and academics who will be able to take their best and brightest minds and apply them to some of these challenges and as we move into incubation, really starting to see these consortia form, working with the networks, and project ideas start to develop even further prior to us opening up the challenges during our acceleration phase and launching the Energy Innovation Summit with the ENA, Ofgem, BEIS and ourselves.

Manu: 42:05

Right, so we’ve covered supporting a just energy transition and preparing for a net-zero power system. I will be back with you in episode five to look at improving energy system resilience and robustness and accelerating decarbonisation of major demands.

Matt: 42:18

Thank so much, Manu. Looking forward to it. It promises to be another great episode of Bright Spark.

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